It’s Saturday. In about 5 hours, I’ll be having dinner with Steve Saint. I can’t wait. I’ve never met him before and he’s speaking at my church tomorrow morning. It’s been an exhausting week. I spent too much time blogging. I didn’t have sermons to complete this week because of our Global Outreach Conference and we have guest speakers all day tomorrow. Next week, I’ll be in San Diego with our Senior Class (I’m the chaperone and the dad of a graduate – not to mention the president of the school. Rank DOES have it’s privileges.) and we’ll be visiting Shadow Mountain Community Church. (I’ve never been there and I’m interested in seeing the church where David Jeremiah is the pastor.) Thus, no sermons for two Sundays. I might explode. Thus I wrote too much this week. I have to have an outlet.
A few miscellaneous thoughts running through my mental mill for this day…
I just read one of the greatest comebacks of all time in a discussion being held on “Sharper Iron” that dealt with Christians going to the theatre. It literally made me laugh out loud and then convicted me in one fell swoop. Here it is… “A Christian Professor at the UNLV told me that the when the Southern Baptists had a meeting there in Las Vegas in the 1990s, one Pastor said to him; "I can just feel the demonic presence here in Las Vegas." His reply was; "must be something like what you felt in the South during the time of segregation and Jim Crow laws." Many Christians have avoided places they thought were evil while practicing greater evil in their daily thinking and lives.”
Speaking of “Sharper Iron” – I’ve gotta’ say I think it is one of the healthiest and most interesting places on the internet. I’d love to meet Jason Janz one day and learn what makes him tick. Years ago, I was friends with his pastor, Les Heinz and remember being impressed with Les’ balance and spirit. “Sharper Iron” is not a place where you’ll always agree with everything that’s posted and it’s not for the faint of heart who think that every challenge to one’s own thoughts is worthy of offense. It’s a place for spiritual provocation and civil debate and I think it is does a great service to fundamentalism (particularly for younger leaders – of which I am no longer one.)
I love missions conferences (we now call ours a “Global Outreach Conference.) Ours ends tomorrow. I’m wasted and I don’t even have to care the largest burden of putting everything together. But it’s a good kind of exhaustion. Sometimes, I find when I’m tired, the Lord speaks best and clearest to me. Kind of like I’m paying attention more. I’m not nearly so self-sufficient at that time. Less prone to argue. More prone to shut-up and listen.
By the way, if you want to hear what Steve Saint has to say, you can watch it on our website live at 10:30 EST or you can watch it later in the week in our streaming video section of our website. Just go to this LINK.
I really enjoyed the “updates” by the SI bloggers from the Lansdale conference. I’ve now put the conference on my “conferences I want to attend” list. I wish it wasn’t so close to the Shepherd’s Conference which is where I hope to be next year at about this time. But I appreciated reading the notes of those who attended the Lansdale conference and it impressed me enough to make me want to attend. For what it’s worth.
I wonder if anyone else who preaches or writes for a ministry feels like I do after I unload a bunch of thoughts or study or a challenge. Sunday nights and Mondays are often times when I feel totally empty, bereft of reserves and more than a little vulnerable. I end up wondering if I said too much or too little, said it too fast or too intensely, communicated what was important and not what was simply interesting. It’s like you have shed a tremendous burden and now you feel a sense of loss or even worth which leaves a melancholic taste in the mouth. I feel a bit that way after having disgorged some of my deepest and most private thoughts and concerns with Christian colleges. They’ve laid on my heart for years. I wish I could say I feel better having laid out this first wave. Maybe I will eventually. No regrets on raising the issues I’ve raised. Just hoping someone heard my heart and not just the words.
Enough ruminations for this day. May each of us worship the Lord in Spirit and in Truth this Sunday.|W|P|114090010692228426|W|P|Snippets and Ruminations (Yet Again…)|W|P|jdpettus@gmail.com
Gordon|W|P|As a fellow pastor, I can testify that I feel exactly as you described on Sunday night and usually all day Monday. I usually try to listen to some good preaching or teaching on Monday so that I can be fed. Thanks for your transparency.
Cindy Swanson|W|P|Dan, a few months ago I got to meet and interview Jason Janz. He truly is a remarkable young man...very personable and goodlooking too, I might add. You can read a transcript of the interview here:
http://cindyswanslife.blogspot.com/2005/10/my-interview-with-jason-janz-of.html
Greg Linscott|W|P|Dan,The school you mention is a pretty extreme example. It is also one that many are already avoiding, for this and other reasons.
I'm not defending these practices at all. But schools with rigid student conduct standards don't take it as far as this. Perhaps you would be better served to use more moderate examples to make your case, rather than the most radical one that there is.
Dan Burrell|W|P|Greg...I respectfully disagree. PCC is not an extreme example. I would suggest that it represents multiple smaller schools and I actually have examples of such in my files. I can name at least 8-10 different colleges that have similar policies.Again, I'm not addressing the whole of evangelical higher education...simply the Independent/Fundamentalist wing of it.
It is sad and frustrating to me that with the colleges, universities and seminaries we have that accept students under the fundamentalist banner, we are leaving a very small (if one at all) mark on the dialogues and debates that are taking place nationally and which affect orthodox Christianity.
Outside of Kevin Bauder, I'm trying to think of another significant Independent Baptist in the blogosphere and now he's gone. As a result, we flock to the Devers (SBC), Pipers, Mohlers, Johnsons, et. al to get sound and thought-provoking stimulation from a conservative theological perspective. Apart from the blogosphere, I find it equally bleak. More Independent Baptists read after MacArthur (on one hand) or Warren(on the other) than they do any similar fundamentalist or Independent Baptist author. So why are we not producing more academic works? Could it be because there is an intrinsic disconnect between our colleges/universities and the real world. I suggest that might be part of the issue.
In the world of Independent Baptists, PCC is mainstream not extreme. They have the most beautiful college campus of its kind, they are the number one seller of Christian textbooks in the world, they have huge financial resources, they entice students to their campus with ridiculously low tuition and their enrollment numbers make it among the largest colleges in the right wing of Christianity.
Extreme example? Yes. But also a fairly typical one in our branch of the fundy tree.
Wendy|W|P|That's PCC? It sounds incredibly similar to the larger and more mainstream fundamentalist school that I worked for until 2002. Robert|W|P|Greg,I don't want to pick on you unnecessarily, but your response (like that of so many critics of Dan's recent posts) is to howl like the hit dog in a pack, "But my school isn't like that." People are being hurt badly in the name of "Christian" education. Rather than decry the posting of the truth, perhaps it would be better to address the underlying problems. And that school is hardly the most radical example of the trend. I know that from firsthand experience.
Bowden McElroy|W|P|The writer doesn't sound "disgruntled". But the college, at least in terms of expectations for the staff, sound cult-like.Were I a betting man (I'm not), I would bet my next paycheck the leaders of such colleges keep hidden a very disturbed marriage/family life.
Greg Linscott|W|P|Again, I'm not defending. But, though I believe in the benefit of the blogosphere, I don't see the lack of Fundamentalist college and seminary profs to be a very alarming thing (though I do wish they'd join us). I think it is much more important for pastors to be heard out here, myself.I am also willing to admit my perspective is a bit skewed. My experience attending Faith Baptist Bible College in Ankeny, Iowa was wonderful, and nothing like what you have described in this series of posts. I also have spent much more time in circles of more Northern influence (including some time in the GARBC) than your Southern flavor of Fundamentalism. I'm not saying there aren't problems, but I am saying that the extremes of what you have referred to here as "smaller schools" has had zero recent impact and influence on my college experience (and I graduated in 2001, for the record). Trying to make the connection between, say, my alma mater and HAC seems to be akin to holding CJ Mahaney accounatble for the excesses and heresies of Benny Hinn.
In regards to the PCC (I guess we're naming them now) reference: In 2001 I took a group of teens on a college tour- we hit BJU, PCC, and Clearwater. My teens, without any prompting, immediately discerned a difference between the oppressive atmosphere at PCC (one of my teens was accosted by an RA for wearing a polo shirt with a discreet University of Iowa Tigerhawk chest logo before he realized my teen was a visitor), the more reasonable (but still pronounced) discipline of BJU, and the academic excellence coupled with a more relaxed atmosphere that marked Clearwater.
CLC|W|P|One of my profs in Bible College reminded us regularly that the "Christian army is the only one that shoots its wounded." I will pray for this brother and his family. Dan Burrell|W|P|Well, John...I guess I would have several responses to your comments.First, indeed, singular illustrations and the nicely chosen anecdote can mean everything or nothing at all in terms of real empirical data. That said, I too, can give you a specific example good kids gone bad at Liberty. In fact, I can give you stories that would curl your hair from every college I know. That wasn't my point.
I identified the problem and I used anecdotes to illuminate the problems...not to verify them.
As for your implication (or my inference) that I would be one who would abandon all rules/"standards", nothing could be further from the truth. But at some point someone should be asking several questions...
1. Are the rules necessary?
2. Do they accomplish their goal?
3. Do they HAVE a goal? (beyond control or making an administrator's life easier that is.)
4. Has the rule become a substitute for discipleship?
5. Has the rule become a crutch?
6. How are the rules being enforced?
7. Is there a spirit of discipleship, restoration, mentoring and counseling in place alongside the rule.
If one is to be honest, those questions are at the heart of the problems in the schools I cited.
As for your swipe at all things Warren and "Rock Concerts"...so you don't think anyone at BJU, PCC, HAC, etc... reads their books or listens to "non-approved music"? C'mon on! I'm not Warren sycophant if you've read my blog at all. Does Steve Green (what an 80's concept) meet your definition of "rock"? Then you would be as out of touch as the administrators of colleges who still rail against him (and yes, they are still using him as some sort of posterchild for CCM which is truly laughable.)
But the decision by major fundamentalist schools to set up fences without explaining their purposes, to exercise crowd control rather than emphasize Holy Spirit control, to ignore or isolate themselves from the culture rather than to examine, dissect and offer a reasoned argument against the culture is what is producing shallow thinkers and those who abandon the whole of fundamentalist theology in search of rational conversation.
You are correct, my solutions are anemic. I don't claim to have the answers. I'm just trying to incite a dialogue. The solutions will not be found in the blogsphere....they will be found in the administrative offices of college administrators who are willing to wake up and realize that we are losing ground in a world that truly needs theological integrity. For it is out of theological integrity that the seeds for cultural impact are sown.
Just my thoughts once again.
Dan
Gordon|W|P|Dan, as one who has attended a FB college, and have many friend who do so, may I say that I have found your series on this topic extremely insightful.I had an experience at one of the smaller fundamentalist colleges that illustrates what you are talking about.
I like to read and always have. Growing up in a Christian home and having several older pastors as friends, I had developed a moderate-sized theological library by the time I arrived at college. Of course, not every writer was strictly fundamental.
After I had been at this college for a short time, the assistant dean came into my room and saw the books. His statement was, "You are going to have to take these books out. You don't have time to read all of these anyway (actually I did). The only books you need are the ones we give you."
Is that controlling or what? I just shared that to say that the attitude you are describing is not limited to just one or two of the bigger schools.
The church I attended as a boy was a small church that was blessed to have 100 people arrive on a Sunday in anything other than a bus. (Like many churches in the 60’s and 70’s, we had a large bus ministry that brought hundreds of kids, but they weren’t really connected to the church substantively.) What a shock it was for me to leave the small fellowship to go off to a college sponsored by a church that boasted (and I use that term advisedly) of having the “World’s Largest Sunday School” at that time. I went from a big fish in a small pond to a minnow in the Shed Aquarium.
Little did I know at that time that I would eventually be pastor of a church in South Florida that would grow from a few hundred to over 1,000 active members and then would move on to Charlotte where we have over 3,000 on our active rolls. To say I was unprepared for both large church leadership and life in a teeming metropolitan area would be an understatement. Yet, what a tremendous opportunity I have had to be part of larger churches in larger cities!
The next challenge I offer to Christian colleges today is not one with an easy solution. But it relates to a huge need our world has and a great opportunity for evangelism. This “chapter” hopefully will be a bit less “controversial” and I’ll tell you upfront that I don’t have any real substantive solutions. Just a few observations and wishes.
Stop and think where most of our Independent Baptist and fundamental Christian colleges are located. Chattanooga, TN; Greenville, SC; Pensacola, FL; Springfield, MO; Clark’s Summit, PA; Dunbar, MN; Owatanna, MN; Watertown, WI; Powell, TN; Winston-Salem, NC; Bradley, WV; Arlington, TX; Lynchburg, VA and a host of other even smaller towns in the cases of the plethora of micro-colleges started by local churches for some inexplicable reason.
Granted there are a few colleges that are located in major metropolitan areas as in Boston Baptist College in Boston and The Master’s College in the LA area, as well as several other California schools (West Coast Baptist, Golden State Baptist, American Heritage and so on.) There are also a few that are located fairly near major metro areas such as Clearwater Christian’s proximity to Tampa, International Baptist near NYC, BBC/Clark’s Summit which is near Philly and NYC sort of. But most of those schools are either small or ill-equipped to teach effective and practical strategies for urban and large city church planting and ministry.
Let’s face it, our colleges mostly prepare young men to pastor small or rural churches where they are the solo pastor or even bi-vocational pastor. Now, the statistical case can be made to support such a strategy. For instance, 95% of the churches in the country run fewer than 500 people in attendance on a given Sunday and 90% run fewer than 200. So obviously, there is a greater demand for pastors who minister to smaller congregations and there is certainly no shame in that and indeed, perhaps some unique advantages.
On top of that is the fact that not every man called to be a pastor is spiritually, intellectually or physically equipped to lead a church that is large and multi-facetted and once again, I stress, there’s no shame in that.
BUT…how are we going to reach the major population centers of our country without a strategy, without young people prepared and schooled in what it takes, without the support of the Christian community and without experience in the culture of big cities?
The typical Independent Baptist, Southern Baptist and conservative evangelical church is small, very white and located outside of an urban area. Yet, tens of millions of Americans live in big cities, are not white and have no church they attend regularly. Let’s face it, the mission field has come to us!
I had to learn very quickly when I began serving as a pastor in South Florida that my white bread, traditional and homespun background in church and life was NOT where most of the people I wanted to reach lived or wanted to live. By the time I left the church, on Sunday morning we would typically have nearly three dozen different nationalities and ethnic groups in our congregation and we were minority white (though we were the largest subgroup in the family.) Our Latin’s swayed, clapped and wept during congregational singing while sitting next to our white Pensacola or Bob Jones graduate families who used their hymnals as an excuse to keep from clapping and no one cared. We had services being interpreted in other languages and had an international feel to our church that I deeply miss to this day.
But I’ll tell you, I was ill-prepared to lead such a diverse congregation and I had to learn on the fly.
In addition, I now serve a church where the annual budget is in excess of $8,000,000 annually. Every day that I wake up, I need over $22,000 to come in the door before I go to bed if our staff of 180 is going to be paid, our missionaries are going to be supported and we’re going to be able to keep the lights on across our 185-acre campus. That’s a LONG way from Moberly.
A city the size of Houston, TX will move to Charlotte, NC in the next 30 years according to demographers. You can drive for miles across New York City without finding a gospel-preaching church. You could start a church every day in South Florida and there wouldn’t be enough because 500-1,000 a day are moving into Florida daily. California, Texas, Arizona are watching their major cities grow and grow and grow.
So, we mostly send our prospective students to small towns where they are schooled in ways that equip them to reach people mostly like them who came from places with which they can identify.
Question – Who is going to go to the big cities, the ghettoes, the inner cities, the Detroits-Clevelands-Seattles-St. Louis’s-Miamis-Bostons of our country? Are we preparing young men to pastor the larger church or how to function in a multi-staff ministry paradigm? Do they know how to communicate to an immigrant or a gang member? Have they ever spent time working with an AIDS sufferer? Could they/would they think about starting a church in the shadow of the White House? What strategies and resources are necessary to plant a church in Boston where a tiny patch of land might cost your several million dollars?
I’m not suggesting that BJU or PCC close their campus and rebuild in Pittsburgh. I just wonder if there isn’t a creative way to prepare future pastors for urban ministry. What are we doing to train young black men to reach a segment of the inner city that is almost completely unlikely to ever darken the door of a traditional white church? Do our kids ever get exposed to ministry in the inner city? Are we training young pastors to think about classic urban problems like gangs, drug abuse, racism and absentee fathers?
Do we offer any training to future pastors on how to develop leadership on a church staff, develop and manage a multi-million dollar budget, tiptoe through the labyrinth of legal issues that impact churches, protect themselves from falling into the trap of “trendy-ism”, use a Biblical model of church government and to protect themselves from the crushing load of responsibility should the Lord call them to a large church ministry?
Are we thinking too small? Are we thinking too narrowly? Are we missing a huge evangelistic opportunity in our cities and inner cities? I think so.
Again, I will admit that I don’t have any real good suggestions, so I’ll throw out the ones I have for discussion and hope that someone might be able to add a few of their own along the way. Here are my thoughts….
1. Consider bringing in some “out-of-the-box” pastors from inner city works to have a week of classes explaining the special and unique challenges of their kinds of ministries.
2. Purposefully bring in minority representatives – African-American, Latino, Asian, multi-race – and ask them to speak in chapel or class about what is happening in the immigrant and minority communities of our country and how we can reach them effectively. NOTE: Because there are so few Independent Baptist leaders of this kind, it might actually require us to get outside of our small world and get acquainted with a brother that isn’t our exact brand.
3. Take the students to the city for ministry – Why not? We take them on study trips to Rome and Athens? (And I’m not talking Georgia there.) Why can’t they take a week or two trip to New York City and use the mornings to meet with pastors of sound works for instruction and then hit the streets for evangelism and ministry in the afternoons and evenings? I’ve gotta’ think that such a trip would be used by God to call some back to the cities.
4. Network better with larger churches. I know the stigma in our circles. Big churches are big because they are “liberal” or compromise or water down the Truth. Yada, yada, yada…. I can show you a LOT of examples where that isn’t the case. Find them. Ask them to share the mistakes they’ve made along the way. Let the students go there and work on extension. Bring their leadership to campus and grill them.
5. Consider a scholarship fund for inner city kids who want to return to their turf to minister. A lot of inner city kids can’t afford to go to college. This wouldn’t be an expense – it would be an investment.
6. Offer at least one course in “large church” ministry that would cover things like budget, human resource services, legal matters, management, software support, leadership development, security, technology, etc… Not only will it help the 5-10% that will go on to lead or be part of larger church ministries, it might help develop those with the calling and potential to develop with the Lord’s blessing a small church into a larger church.
I expect some criticism on some of these ideas and that’s OK. Sure, I know that megachurches have many flaws. I don’t think a big church is the best church and that’s why we are spinning of the first of many new congregations from our church this year. (Hey…and we are actually doing it on purpose rather than the preferred Baptist method – having a church split!) I know the primary purpose of Bible colleges and seminaries is to teach the Word and how to use it, but great Bible scholars who can’t administrate will have problems in a pastoral ministry – that’s the world in which we live.
I also want to commend the colleges that are already doing this at some level. Boston Baptist College (where I serve as an adjunct and board member) is starting churches using their faculty and students all over the greater Boston area. But Boston Baptist has fewer than 200 students and has no financial resources beyond what is required to keep the doors open. I know BBC – Clark’s Summit takes teams into New York for ministry as does Word of Life in Schroon Lake and they probably have better strategies than I’d ever concoct. I believe Liberty sends teams into Washington and New York as well. Of course, Hyles-Anderson College does a lot of inner-city ministry and may be the most effective large fundamentalist college to do so -- sadly, the cultic aura of the place offers little I can recommend.
Perhaps it’s just my personal burden. Maybe it’s because I often feel unqualified and ill-prepared to do what I’m doing. Definitely it’s because I see a great field that is white unto harvest in the urban areas of our country and I hope our colleges and universities will fan the flames of inner city church planting and evangelism in the years to come.
Now discuss among yourselves.|W|P|114079963966619479|W|P|Challenges and Opportunities for Conservative Christian Colleges – Part 3 –Thinking “Bigger”|W|P|jdpettus@gmail.com Larry|W|P|Great article Dan. One of my concerns is this very thing of urban ministry. We don't do it well. I have been putting together some plans for a church plant in Detroit. In fact, next week I will be offering an article about it and requesting contacts for people who are experienced in inner-city ministry, and for people who might be interested in being a part of it in some way.I don't know what the answer is. I know some people don't like urban areas because of fear ... the drugs, violence, etc. For some people, I do wonder if there is an unspoken racism that leads us to migrate towards "people like us." I think part of it is that we are ill-equipped to deal with the social problems that sin brings (alcohol/drug addiction, immorality, single mothers, etc.). We are also ill-equipped to deal with people who don't already think like us.
There is more I am sure. I will be very interested in seeing the responses you get.
Dan Burrell|W|P|Thanks, Larry. I'm frustrated with myself for the inarticulate way in which I have expressed my concern over this issue. At the same time, I feel compelled to submit it for dialogue to others as it is such an important issues.The evangelicals are once again jumping onto the social gospel wagon these days and expending millions to feed, clothe and educate. Fundamentalists have done little if anything to meet those kinds of needs and we should be ashamed of that fact. BUT... apart from the Gospel -- the inner city folks have NO hope and it's not enough to criticize others who are misguided, we have to do something ourselves.
Keep us posted on your Detroit efforts. That sounds exciting!
Thanks for reading....Dan
Robert|W|P|In the secular world, it is not at all uncommon for college students to do internships--paid or unpaid (although paid is always better!) in their chosen fields. Why not give full course credit for working on an inner city church staff for a semester, like student teachers receive now? Why not ask the college's donors to contribute to a fund to cover the expenses of this kind of training, so it isn't a burden on the church? (I know, I know.) How about cross-cultural training (required) for ministry here in America? A lot of us can identify with the wideness of your eyes those first weeks in Chicago! Great thoughts...as always.
Dan Burrell|W|P|Pilgrim...I deleted your comment, now let me tell you why.
Your facts are off and not by a little. I'll tell you what, call me and I'll sit down with you and go through your comments line by line. I'll also be happy to share with you some things about public leadership. When we get done, if I'm in error I'll apologize to you. If you are wrong, I'll be happy to accept your apology. Airing a debate of this nature is not what this blog is for.
So...let's see if you have the courage to follow the Biblical pattern and call me personally to talk about it.
704.602.2213 is how you can reach me.
Terry Lange|W|P|Central Seminary (www.centralseminary.edu) is doing such a thing. We have a Masters Degree with a concentration in Urban Ministries. Fourth Baptist Church in Plymouth,MN was originally located in Minneapolis, when they left the inner city and moved, they did not abandon the inner city, they left a staff member and 200 people to form the Family Baptist Church which is a block away from the old 4th Baptist site. Now Family Baptist has given birth to a church called All Nations Baptist which is committed to reaching the international student community and others in the neighborhood surrounding the University of MN. Also, Fourth is involved in another church plant north of Minneapolis in a town called Elk River. The church will be named Bible Baptist Church.
Dan Burrell|W|P|Terry...the more I hear about Central Seminary, the more I am impressed. In fact, I recommended it to someone who lives in the Midwest recently. Doug McLaughlin's book on "Reclaiming Authentic Fundamentalism" was one of the 10 most influential books I've read in terms of my personal development. Dr. Bauder's blog was high on my must-read list. Your experiences confirm what I hoped was true.My dear friend and mentor, Pete (Wilbur) Peters who is a member of my church has been very active with 4th Street and CS for years and he also told me it is a great seminary.
I've not really been trying to address the Seminaries at all as I'm very ignorant of most of them. I've not yet attempted a seminary degree though I may in the future. I'm friends with Dr. Norm Geisler locally and I really like Southern Evangelical's emphasis on apologetics and worldviews, though I don't know that it prepares one for pastoring particularly well.
It's exciting to hear of your experiences at Central and I hope you'll keep sharing them with me and others.
Dan
PBC Soccer|W|P|Dan, Thanks for the article---We certainly need to give more attention to this area. I do know a special gentleman and his wife (Maurice & Sahara Bonillo) who minister to inner city kids in W-S, NC. Their ministry is called La Cruz (Christians Reaching Urban Zones). Each Wednesday night they average 25-30 high school students and 30-40 elementary / middle school students. Maurice utilizes 7-10 college students to help minister to these inner city children. Some of the college students at PBC are not writing about inner city ministry, but are participating in inner city ministry. Their lives are being stretched in prayer, teaching methods, patience, love, endurance, and perseverance. More importantly they are finding invaluable relationships with these young people that will be etched in their memory for a lifetime.
We also recently had two gentleman, both preparing for marriage this summer, present their future ministry in Boston. By no coincidence, after I read this blog I attended chapel and heard their message.
I am confident we are not doing enough, but some are doing a little and we should clean out our ears and listen. Maurice is a valuable resource to PBC as he teaches us how to reach the inner city.
m11_9|W|P|Moody Bible Institute in Chicago is quite conservative and quite urban. A good example for anyone not 100% secondarily separated. I listen to their radio programming and can't really tell the difference between them and my past life as an IFB(although admittedly I only spent 2 years in IFB, and have no dog in any doctrinal matters anymore(I am now a more-or-less unitarian-universalist for lack of a better label), so me not telling the difference is absolutely an outsider opinion)The obvious difference is the type of music, admittedly, but since I have no opinion on that either, as an outsider to that fight too, I am just referring to the preaching at MBI. I think they can all wear pants too, and be normal casual teens and young people, and can walk the streets of Chicago without looking like mormon missionaries(sans the pocket protectors)
Dan you have a great blog, I was one of the surf-ins from PCCBoard. You're keeping your movement honest and thinking, good job.
I am still fascinated by what I see as the trainwreck of BJ and PCC(they are the approved big-schools from my former church, BJ more so), since my niece and nephew will have no choice but BJ.
The only very recent abandonment of the southern racist remnant policies is really the most damning thing about BJ. Being the last to join the rest of the country on race is something to be utterly ashamed of, and taints any urban work they would try. The students and staff there were shocked to learn only on Larry King's show that they were changing course. They were defending the 'old way' minutes before.
So I read the PCCBoard to know what they can expect from such a strange college system, someday maybe I can share what I know, but if not oh well.
2 Timothy 1:7 God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
I realize that at times, I can be exceedingly dense. I’ll use as my excuse the fact that I was reared in Missouri – home of the famous “Missouri Mule”…as hard-headed a creature as has ever walked the earth. Or if that one doesn’t work for you, my mom did drop me on my head when I was a baby. That’s always been a convenient excuse for me. (Sorry mom, for letting out that family secret.)
I’m not a particularly “brave” person on some things. For example, a snake (anything that slithers and is longer than a small fishing worm) will make me scream like a six-year-old girl. Seriously. I lived in South Florida for nearly seventeen years and there are more snakes there than orange trees. EVERY time I saw one, I nearly had a stroke. My wife was forced to kill several of them in our pool, on our porch, even in our house while I bravely sat in the car waiting for her to get the job done. I’m not afraid of a 1,200 pound Hereford bull, but when my kid puts a rubber snake on my shoulder for kicks, it’s enough to require a change of clothes for me.
But, that part of my brain that deals with asking questions, thinking out loud, challenging sacred cows or just asking “what if” apparently never developed the “fear” button. Thus, I don’t understand why people are afraid of “ideas”, “questions” and the occasionally politically incorrect inquiry. So maybe it’s because I’m dense rather than fearless that I am the way that I am.
In the last week, I’ve received quite a few emails telling me I have “guts” for publishing some of the things that I do in my blog. For years, I’ve had members of both churches I’ve pastored occasionally mention to me that they are often taken back by my willingness to speak plainly about Biblical issues from the pulpit. I’m often mystified by the comments of others which often go something like, “I’d really to speak out on this subject, but I’m afraid of what others might think.” I’ve never been overly encumbered with that particular concern. Perhaps that’s a character deficiency on my part, if not an intellectual one.
So with those introductory paragraphs in place, I guess I want to ask today, “What are we afraid of in Funda-mentalism and Conservative Christianity these days?” Why is there such a spirit of fear – even intimidation, in so many peoples lives, churches and ministries?
As I look at what I view to be an “oppressive” fear that permeates the circles in which I run, I believe it has several dangerous consequences. (And if not dangerous, then they are just sad.)
1. Fear produces inauthenticity. We try to “perform” to the expectations of others rather than to enjoy the freedom we have in Christ’s grace. We worry more about whether we are pleasing man than we are about pleasing God.
2. Fear spawns duplicity and hypocrisy. Most people can’t sustain a fear-driven life, thus they learn to compartmentalize and can end up being someone different in private than they are in public and sadly, because they aren’t honest about their own struggles, they become quite good at living the duplicitous life rife with hypocrisy.
3. Fear squelches personal worship. In many cases, fear is little more than idolatry. We let the expectations and intimidations of man to mean more to us than the expectation of God. Thus, we conform to that which is un- or non-Biblical while ignoring that which God has expressly encouraged.
4. Fear is contagious. Recently, my wife was vacuuming happily in our home when I needed to ask her a question. I walked up behind her and she jumped and shrieked like a banshee. I, in turn, jumped (though I DID NOT shriek and I’m sticking by that.) Our fear of being criticized, ostracized or marginalized often keeps us from speaking up, joining in or participating and not only that, it keeps others from asking questions or speaking up.
5. Fear is discouraging. Who, in their right mind, wants to remain forever squelched? Eventually, many good people just throw in the towel because they want answers but are too afraid to ask the questions.
6. Fear is over-rated. Most of the time, exaggeration feeds our fears. Seriously, what’s the worst that can happen to you? So you ask a politically-incorrect question? You express some doubt. You voice an opinion. What’s going to happen to you? Somebody says something unkind to you? (Have you ever worn the wrong colors to a professional football game? Unkind words happen and you’ll live through them.) So you don’t get invited to something? (If that’s the price of admission, I don’t want to be there.) You get fired? (What, God won’t give you another job or take care of you?) You lose a friend? (Were they ever really a friend if they’ll cut you off for not sharing their exact same opinion on every matter?) In the end, most of our fears are exaggerated reactions that will never pan out and if they do, they aren’t really that big of a deal.
7. Fear is unbiblical. Check out 2 Timothy 1:7
8. Fear breeds ignorance. If you are too afraid to ask the question, you aren’t going to get the answer. Asking questions invites responses and encouraged discussion and we learn in the process.
9. Fear impedes healthy relationships. Who wants to be held hostage by fear? If you can’t be honest in your marriage, in your faith, in your church, in your friendships…then you have an healthy relationship.
10. Fear prevents depth. Shallow people are fearful people. The are happy with the status quo. They are more concerned with personalities than principles. They end up talking about people and their responses rather than ideas and their implications. As a result, we turn into dried up, shrewish, embittered, shriveled shadows of what could have been.
It breaks my heart that so many Christians – fundamentalists, conservatives, evangelicals – are so afraid within their own families of believers.
I see it in our own church. I admit that I’m a bit “free-spirited” on a lot of things even though people might be very surprised at how reserved and conservative I am on a personal level. When I first came to Northside, I found it interesting that people were afraid to clap when they enjoyed something or agreed with something or it was appropriate in keeping rhythm during a particular song. Some might say “Amen” (though not a lot). Others would offer a few tepid hand strikes on occasion, but I’d see a look ranging from discomfort to terror cross their faces as they looked furtively around them to see if anyone was going to join in with them. More often than not, it petered out with an embarrassing smattering that left some vowing to never connect their hands in public again. It was deemed appropriate to tap one’s toe or nod one’s head to a song that was rhythmic. It was even considered acceptable to tap one hand (ONE only), on the Bible in keeping beat, but heaven help that some poor soul who was new or Latin or something and would really want to “clap along” and get with it. (EXCEPTION: anything “Southern Gospel” was considered clappable. But only that.)
Now, I’m not intending to mock (well, maybe tease a little) but seriously, there was at times a fear permeating the room that was almost palpable. And let’s not even consider what happened on the occasions we would sing a song that spoke of “lifting one’s hands”. Even the ol’ Gaither song, “Let’s Just Praise the Lord” that had a line in it that said “Let’s just lift our hands toward heaven” had to be “edited” to now say, “Let’s just lift our HEARTS toward heaven” for fear that someone might walk in, see a bunch of Baptists with their hands in the air and jump to the immediate conclusion that Benny Hinn was our guest speaker that day. (PLUS, I always have this really weird picture in my mind with people lifting their physical hearts upwards when we sing it that way.)
If I haven’t been specific enough, let me give you some more examples of fear and intimidation keeping us from saying things that might need to be said – to the right AND to the left.
Billy Graham once gave a squishy answer on Salvation through Christ alone and I addressed it publicly as a disappointment right from my pulpit in the hometown of the renowned evangelist. Someone asked me if I wasn’t being “indiscrete” due to the fact that I have a weekly radio broadcast on WMIT – 106.9 (Sunday’s at 6:30 p.m. for those in the Carolinas). My thought was, it was an issue that needed to be raised. Would Billy Graham really want to leave an impression that people can go to heaven by some other means than the blood of Jesus Christ alone? If he did, I’d rather get kicked off the station (which I wasn’t) than be silent on such an important issue. And if I were to ever be unclear on something of such great importance, I hope they’d call on me to clarify myself as well.
When the liberal Democrats and homosexual activists teamed up to introduce gay-friendly changes in our ciy’s discrimination policies, I lead the opposition to it from the conservative Christian community’s perspective. I was asked if I was afraid there would be ramifications that could happen including losing our tax-exempt status. I responded by getting in the pulpit and saying they could have our tax-exempt certificate if that was the price for being silent on moral issues in Charlotte. (We didn’t lose our 501c3 certificate either.)
Several folks have implied that I might be committing professional harikari by writing the articles I’ve written in the last few weeks regarding some things in Christian colleges about which I’m concerned. I asked them, “What should I fear?” That they won’t invite me to speak at their chapels? OK. I won’t speak there. That I won’t be asked to serve on their boards? OK. I’ve got other things to do. That I won’t be invited to speak at a national meeting somewhere? Whatever. I’ve got a church where I love to preach as often as they’ll let me, so I’m really quite content. Why should I be afraid of asking questions? Isn’t God still Sovereign?
Maybe it’s because I’m getting ready to turn 45 in a few weeks. Maybe it’s because I spent a LOT of my life worrying about what others thought about me and decided enough was enough and that I was tired of feeling dishonest? Maybe it’s because I bought into the politically-correct intimidation often whispered to me within the fundamentalist bureaucracy that warned against “rocking the boat” for too many years and I vowed I’d never sell out to that again. Maybe it’s because when I speak out so many others are now saying “Amen” and finding the courage to start asking those questions out loud themselves.
You see, I’ve heard a lot of people gossip and whisper and discuss in hushed voices with furtive glances their views on a plethora of issues in evangelicalism, fundamentalism, Independent Baptist-ism and a lot of other areas. I just think its time that we cast off the spirit of fear and start talking about stuff.
I decided that if I want to clap along with a praise chorus, I’m going to do it. David did it – in fact, he got naked and danced while he clapped. I’m not ABOUT to do that. So I’m thinking I’m safe to clap along with “What Mighty God We Serve.”
I took it a step further. I found all these verses in the Bible wherein the ancient saints of Scripture would raise their hands in submission and praise as they sang or prayed. I know the Charismatics have turned hyper-emotionalism into an art form, but I’m SO not charismatic and why should I let them steal a Biblical expression of surrender from my worship. So when I pray or sing a song that humbles me, I’m not afraid any longer to raise my hands. If it bothers you – don’t do it. I don’t care. I’m not even paying attention to you. I’m just yielding myself personally to Truth. It’s between me and God. I don’t think it makes me more spiritual than you. I’ll be a humdinger if I’m going to allow some Islamic terrorist show a greater demonstration of personal humility to his phony-baloney god than I’m willing to show to the Great I AM.
I decided that if I see something unbiblical in our church, we’re going to use Church Discipline. We recently had to church two of our young people. I LOVE those kids. It broke my heart. They come from great families. Someone asked me if it didn’t make me nervous to use church discipline in our family. My reply is it would make me MORE nervous to not use (excuse my split infinitive there) something so Biblically clear as church discipline than it would be to use it as a loving method for upholding our doctrinal and practical orthodoxy.
I think racism is wrong and I think there’s a lot of latent racism in fundamentalist churches and colleges. I’m going to write about it. I think the average youth director thinks he’s more of an activities director on a cruise ship than he is a minister of the gospel and I’m going to write about that too. I think the KJVO controversy and the Music/Worship wars have done more to damage fundamental churches in the last twenty years than all the liberals in Wheaton, Illinois and Colorado Springs, CO combined have done and I’m not afraid to say it. I think we’ve done a lousy job of teaching worldview, philosophy and discernment to our Christian school students and we’d better get with it or close the schools. I think the whole “Repeat this magic prayer for me so that you can have fire insurance and then party on” mentality of evangelism has created a generation of lost church members in America and it’s reprehensible. I think our lack of discipleship in the typical fundamental church is a crime against the Great Commission and tantamount to spiritual child abuse and I plan on poking on that point again in the future. I don’t think fundamental and conservative pastors are doing enough to counter the pragmatic industry (and I use that term purposefully – with no pun attended) of the “Church Growth Movement” and we should be writing about it and discussing/debating it.
And I’m just getting started on topics I’d like to see “aired” and you haven’t even had a chance to float your pet balloons and pet peeves as well.
I want to challenge my fundamental and conservative brethren (and sisters) to get rid of the fear and start talking. Here are a few “ground rules” I try to keep to help keep me accountable.
First, I also make sure people understand, my views are just one man’s opinions. I don’t have a corner on truth, I’m still learning every day and I enjoy the dialogue. But in the end, apart from what is clearly defined in Scripture, it’s all just opinion.
Next, it doesn’t have to be personal even if it is direct. If we start taking unfair swipes or begin mischaracterizing things, then we should point it out to each other like grown-ups and then stop it. We should be able to be specific without being mean.
Also, I try to be accountable. I have a very wise pastor friend who is old enough to be my father that has been very influential in my intellectual development as a fundamentalist. I have other “experts” who know me fairly well that I can reach with a flick of the “send” button. So before I post something that has the potential to be misunderstood, I have one or more of them vet it for me to make sure it’s appropriate.
I want to use some manner of journalistic standard when I write. For example, it is something that happened to me personally, I want to make sure the reader understands that I’m the source. If someone shares information with me, I verify it with someone else to make sure that the “double check” standard of journalistic integrity is kept. If I mess up a detail or need to retract something, I will as soon as I become aware of it. That’s only fair.
Finally, I want to keep a good attitude myself. When my pet peeves become vendettas, it’s time for me to stop typing for a while. When I start taking criticism to heart in that it discourages me or reveals a pride issue in my own life, then I need to back off and regain my perspective. If I should start being more of a distraction than a help, then I’ll need to sign off.
But, I simply refuse to be “afraid” of what others might think if I ask questions of those in positions of influence, if I challenge group think, if I don’t stay on the fundamentalist plantation or if I might lose an opportunity for asking things out loud that I’m thinking about in my heart. When I know my heart is sincere, it gives me the freedom of conscience to ask things without malice hoping that my own thinking will be challenged and hopefully that my heart will always be transformed to become that which is the good and perfect and acceptable will of God.|W|P|114071352316255361|W|P|Of Fear and Intimidation Among Believers|W|P|jdpettus@gmail.com Terry Lange|W|P|I am with you on the snakes. Lived in Jacksonville, FL for 14 years and did not like snakes.My motto is the only good snake is a dead one!
patrick mitchell|W|P|you hit the nail on the head! conservative christianity is scared. colleges and schools are promoting that ungodly fear. if you ask a question about a philosophical position of the school, everyone gasps and looks at you like you are satan's cousin. no one learns to think for themself in that environment. whatever the pastor/teacher/parent says is gospel...and THAT is extremely dangerous!
THAT was a fight worth having. The theological liberalism that crept in to the SBC through the colleges and seminaries nearly killed the denomination. Good men on both sides responded to the liberalism in different ways. Some left the convention – great leaders like Lee Roberson and John Rice. Lesser greats like Jack Hyles and Lester Roloff were expelled and ended up with a zeal born of the nasty way they were treated.[It should be noted here that there was marked difference in how different pastors left or were asked to leave the SBC. In the case of Roberson and Rice, they left sadly and reluctantly. Guys like Hyles and Roloff left loudly and would use their expulsion as a rallying cry for the rest of their lives.] Eventually hundreds, if not thousands of churches pealed off then began splitting and planting new churches which lead to the hay-days of the Independent Baptists in the 1970's when nearly all of the largest and fastest growing churches in the country were Independent Baptist.
Other great Southern Baptists decided to stay and fight to regain control of their denomination. Men like R.G. Lee, Adrian Rogers, Homer Lindsey, W.A. Criswell, Jerry Vines and others lead a resurgence that resulted in the unprecedented recapturing of a denomination that was being strangled by theological liberals. In 1980, they were able to elect a conservative to the Presidency of the SBC and from that point until today, they have continued their work in wresting the bureaucracy from those that doubt the Word of God. By most accounts, they have salvaged the major seminaries. By the same accounts, the colleges are largely lost though some might cite a few exceptions.
Therein lies the great opportunity for Conservative Christian Colleges. But before I go into that, I want to spend some more time examining the Southern Baptist Convention and where it is on the theological scale of "left" to "right".
The primary objections held by many Independent Baptists were dealing with the "Big C's" –
Certainty of Scripture – This is the inerrancy issue and the most important issue
Colleges and Seminaries – Gone Liberal
Cooperative Program – Money spent supporting liberals
Church autonomy – Largely a smokescreen, based on the false assumption that the denomination owned and ran the local churches. Any one who has ever been a Southern Baptist will tell you that the local church has always been autonomous.
Convictions and Separation – Independent Baptists stressed higher standards of personal separation than did many SBC's including issues of smoking, social drinking, dancing, mixed "bathing" (swimming), gambling, theatre attendance, etc…
Today, there is no question that the Inerrantists have recaptured the SBC leadership. Every president of the SBC for the last quarter of a century has been an inerrantist. 
The seminaries are better than they may have ever been [Southeastern, which is conservative today, was never conservative; it was liberal from its very inception. Thanks to Paige Patterson, et.al., it is now solidly right of center]-- led back to theological soundness by men like Al Mohler and Paige Patterson and the colleges have largely cut themselves loose from the SBC Cooperative trough. The cooperative program is still problematic in my opinion, but I'm a born and bred Independent Baptist and my recalcitrance to get involved in most things "cooperative" is part of my DNA – but even I'll admit that it's not a matter of separation for me – I just ain't gonna' give toward it. Many will be interested in knowing that Southern Baptist churches don’t HAVE to give to the cooperative program and many choose not to do so.
The church autonomy argument was and is totally bogus and the SBC people that hear it used snicker at the ignorance of those who cite it. As for convictions and separation – those are relative and transient and I will tell you that for every Southern Baptist with "low" standards of separation, I can show you an Independent Baptist one with "low" standards and conversely, the same with high standards. (It's actually further evidence of the autonomy of each individual church.) The late Homer Lindsay Jr. (First Baptist, Jax, FL) often took very conservative stands on issues of personal separation - including an attack on golf and those who play it.
Sadly, many Independent Baptist Colleges (and specifically, their presidents and senior administrators ) are still fighting the wars of the 1950's and 60's. I'm a bit sympathetic to their feelings – many of them were truly treated shabbily by the liberals and their weaker cousins, the accommodators. However, at some point, it's like hating today's citizens of Japan and Germany because of World War II – except (and this is no small point) most of these guys are OUR BROTHERS in CHRIST! As a child growing up in Independent Baptist Churches, when I heard the subject of "The Great Whore of Babylon", I was often confused as to whether they were talking about the Roman Catholic Church or the Southern Baptist Convention. Either way, it was clear that they were referencing "infidels." Pathetically, many are still using that kind of rhetoric toward a denomination that bears little, if any, resemblance to the dangerously drifting convention of a generation or two ago.
You would think that many of those who fought the battles would be rejoicing today over the declarations of today's SBC. If you haven't read the "Georgia Confession" – you really should. In the last year or two, they've broken away from the rank liberal World Baptist Alliance. Shoot, even Jimmy Carter has renounced the Southern Baptists – that should mean something. Indeed, the liberals are now nestled in their own new "denomination" – the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship.
Several years ago, (nearly 10 if my memory serves me correctly), I was speaking at Clearwater Christian College. Clearwater is a good school with sound academics and general balance in most areas. (I can remember days when I considered it unacceptably “liberal” because they have always had a relaxed dress code and policy on such fundamentals of the faith as single dating and allowing co-eds to hold hands.) At the time, George Youstra was President of CCC. Dr. Youstra is a well-respected educator and did much in his leadership of the college after having served in the Reagan Administration's Department of Education. But on the day that I spoke in chapel, as soon as I was done speaking, Dr. Youstra took the pulpit and gave a significant tirade taking the Southern Baptists to task. As I scanned the student body of several hundred students, I saw many looks of boredom or frustration. Interestingly, a girl from our church was a student at CCC and had a Roman Catholic roommate who still attended her local church.
When I was completing my Master's Degree at Pensacola Christian College during the late 1980's, it was the custom for Arlin and Beka Horton to invite some speakers of reknown or expertise in a particular area to address a "graduate lecture series". (It was my privilege to be the featured speaker in the 1990's where I addressed the topic of World Views and Christian education.) This was, in many ways, the highlight of the summer and I heard some really fantastic speakers as part of a sound Master's Degree in Educational Administration. One of the last years I was there, however, they invited Dr. Wayne VanGeldren, Sr. from Illinois to give a day-long lecture. His two topics were exposing the "Heretical Position on the Blood of Christ of Dr. John MacArthur" and "The Problems with the Southern Baptist Convention." A dear friend of mine who was the administrator of a Christian school in Belle Glade, Florida AND who was a Southern Baptist, was earning her Master's Degree from there (as were several other Southern Baptist educators.) I sadly remember how she quietly left the lyceum rather than listen to the lecture which was rife with dated information and excessive rhetoric. (By the way, the attack on MacArthur's position on the blood was later clarified and exposed as a straw man ambush instigated by certain powers at Bob Jones University. Sadly, the damage to Dr. MacArthur's reputation remains to this day as many still repeat the allegations long ago proven moot.)
I have enjoyed many long conversations over dinner, at meetings, even staying in one of the Horton's homes over the years before they summarily cut me off a few years ago. (I still don't know why – my last conversation with Arlin centered around a gossipy and disgruntled employee that had filled his ears with stuff that was mischaracterized and inaccurate. There is, no doubt, a difference in our philosophy regarding Praise and Worship music and I suspect that is the reason I'm not allowed to recruit staff at their conferences. But that's OK….they still apply to our schools and I'm happy to hire those that can think for themselves. They have good educations and are wonderful ministers.) If you know the Horton's, you know that there is a significant disdain for the Southern Baptists thought I don’t know of any specific injustice committed against them by the SBC. It might be interesting to note that the Horton’s are both graduates of Bob Jones University and perhaps received some of their views regarding the SBC during their years there. Interestingly A Beka Books is quite content selling their texts to thousands of Southern Baptist students and many of their academy and college students hail from Southern Baptist Churches. I have heard them speak of their disdain of the Southern Baptist Convention personally and pointedly and you'll never find a Southern Baptist speaker on their dais.
Bob Jones University has also had a long-time "issue" with the Southern Baptists that is no secret. Carl Herbster, a published BJU author and the former President of the American Association of Christian Schools wrote the speakers at the Fiftieth Southwide Baptist Fellowship held at Highland Park Baptist Church in October of 2005 admonishing them against preaching on a platform that included Southern Baptist pastors and leaders including Johnny Hunt, Gene Mims, Larry Reesor (a graduate of TTU) and Jerry Falwell (a graduate of BBC/Springfield). I was one of the speakers and the letter I received is in my file. I'm afraid that my response to Dr. Herbster was less than gracious, but it reflected my position then and now. Interestingly, the region of AACS where Carl remains a power recently (with no success) tried to lead the national organization into a ridiculous position opposing associations with Southern Baptist sponsored day schools.
I’ll share one example recently given to me regarding BJU’s inconsistency regarding the Southern Baptists. Several years ago, Dr. Bob Jones, III heard John Ankerberg (a fantastic apologist) on TV and was impressed. He went on to invite him to speak in chapel. He discovered after he had spoken that he was the member of a Southern Baptist church. In spite of the fact that he did a great job and said nothing out of the way, Dr. Jones, III felt he had to call the entire faculty together and apologize for having a Southern Baptist in the pulpit. Ironically, well-known political commentator and scholar, Alan Keyes has spoken there also. Keyes is black, Catholic and marhas an inter-racial marriage (his wife is reportedly from India) (this was before they lifted the inter-racial dating ban). Such inconsistency is part of the dilemma when one determines that all Southern Baptists, regardless of their fundamental doctrinal and personal distinctives, are “not acceptable” to conservative Christian and Independent Baptist colleges.
There are many smaller colleges in the Conservative Christian College circles ranging from Hyles-Anderson to Golden State Baptist to West Coast Baptist to Heartland Baptist to Texas Baptist and quite a few others that would align with the attitude of the examples I have given above. Again, let me reiterate, I think CCC, BJU and PCC have decent academic programs. But I also believe that they are fighting a senseless ongoing battle that misses the forest for the trees. MANY of their graduates faithfully serve in good and sound Southern Baptist Churches. The Southern Baptists are NOT the enemy. Liberalism is. Apostasy is. Ecumenicalism is. Modernism is. If you can listen to Paige Patterson, Johnny Hunt, Junior Hill, Jerry Vines, Al Mohler, Jack Graham, Ed Young, Jim Henry and a host of other outstanding Southern Baptist pastors preach and call them "liberals" or "compromisers" or "apostate" – well then, you're just being intellectually dishonest and stunningly ignorant.
Interestingly, there appears to be some Independent Baptist and Conservative Christian colleges that are waking up to the opportunity that lies before them. I'll explain the opportunity after I give the examples.
Jerry Falwell and Liberty University have largely lead the way. Jerry made alliances with key conservatives in the SBC and as a result, they have sent their students to Liberty Mountain to be educated by the droves. They are now the largest Christian college of their kind and their graduates are leaving a mark all over the globe. Again, I grew up be taught that Jerry Falwell was a compromising liberal because he had an accredited school and because they didn't have hair inspections for boys that kept their hair off their collars and eyebrows. (I'm being serious, as ridiculous as that sounds.) I will say that our academy graduates who go to Liberty University come back with a zeal for God, enthusiasm for the local church, willingness to serve and a positive spirit that is unapproached, unequaled and unexcelled among the Christian college students we have come back for breaks or to join our ministry team. My son, as of this date, has chosen Liberty for his college experience beginning this fall and my wife and I are thrilled with what we have seen as we have checked out the school from top to bottom.
Cedarville University made a decision a couple of years ago to encourage a relationship with the Ohio Southern Baptist Association. The Ohio SBC chose to approve Cedarville as their school of choice for their young people - rather than trying to start a college of their own and essentially duplicating what Cedarville is already doing. I knew it was coming before it actually occurred as Dr. Paul Dixon, the past President of CU, told me while I was there speaking in chapel that he was working toward forging a partnership. Cedarville has been aligned with the GARB (General Association of Regular Baptists) for years and a rather vocal minority of GARB pastors went apoplectic over the announcement. Ultimately, the GARB decided to disassociate with all of their "approved" colleges ending their practice of endorsing certain schools. (Some believe there is an impending split coming very soon in the GARB which may end the association as we have always known it.)
CU is one of the most competitive and respected colleges of any kind in the country and they turn students away every year because of the demand to become a CU student. They have adopted a philosophy of slow growth (at one time it was limited to 100 more each year) and they have been able to select the cream of the crop for their school and they can now boast of alumni who have written national best-selling novels, serve in elected office and have even had a graduate who served as clerk to the late Chief Justice Rehnquist (and is a close personal friend of mine and a member of my church.) They too saw the wisdom of counting the Southern Baptist pastors of their state as their friends and thus, they are booming.
Most recently has been the movement of Tennessee Temple University in Chattanooga, TN. TTU may well be the "granddaddy" of the Independent Baptist Church-Affiliated schools and one time had over 4,000 on-campus students. After the retirement of founder, Dr. Lee Roberson, the entire ministry – located in a rough section of Chattanooga – went through a tough transition and enrollment plummeted until it was less than 1/10th of its peak size. Two years ago, David Bouler had an epiphany and maybe a catharsis and began a rapid and stunning change. He hired Danny Lovett, who was serving as the head of Liberty University's seminary, to be the new President of the college. Danny, a gregarious and evangelistic leader, began building bridges to the biggest and best Southern Baptist churches across the Southeast. As a result, enrollment took an immediate leap upward and reports are that next fall looks even better.
There are several smaller, but historic Independent College of which I am aware who are privately moving toward recruiting and building alliances with Southern Baptist pastors and students. I won't name them here because it might make their task more difficult, but it's going to be happening and I think it's good news.
So, are these colleges "compromising" or are they smart? Let's consider a few things.
First, what is wrong with educating and soliciting students from churches that hold to the fundamentals of the faith, want to serve God and have a passion for reaching people for God? Why shouldn't they be recruited, embraced, encouraged and trained. By what logic should they be ignored or even reject by Independent Baptist Schools? Are we afraid that they'll change US? If so, then maybe we don't believe what we say we believe ardently enough. Worse yet, maybe we are academically and intellectually too weak to make our case. Otherwise, wouldn't this be a great opportunity to train a generation of young leaders as to what is really important among orthodox Christians of the Baptist persuasion?
Secondly, the Southern Baptists want and need our colleges. They lost theirs. Baylor, Sanford, Stetson, Wake Forest – the list goes on and on. They've cut most, if not all, of their ties with the SBC and the SBC has cut their ties with them. Their seminaries are healthy, vibrant and producing EXCELLENT graduates. You'd be shocked at how many graduates of our MOST conservative colleges go on to pursue seminary degrees at Southern, Southeastern and Southwestern Seminaries. Maybe we shouldn't be shocked when for years, many Independent Baptists referred to seminaries as "cemeteries" and mocked their existence while starting pathetic excuses (in many cases) of their own seminaries which really weren't even good Bible colleges, let alone graduate schools.
It's a great opportunity. They feed our sound Bible colleges and we feed their sound seminaries. It's a healthy and exciting opportunity! They don't need to start all over by founding colleges – there are plenty of empty chairs and dorm rooms in good conservative Bible colleges. Only the foolish would argue that Bible college graduates aren't going to get a great education at the main Southern Baptist seminaries.
Finally, the students are voting with their feet already. They put up with the anti-SBC rhetoric while they are in school, but when they graduate – they go to work for SBC Churches. Why is that? Because, many of the great churches in America today are indeed Southern Baptist Churches. Remember those statistics where the largest churches in the country were Independent Baptist Churches? That isn't the case today. Many of them are Southern Baptist Churches. Could it be because they recognize who the "real" enemy is? Here's a hint….it isn't us and we need to remember that they aren't our enemy either.
Sadly, many of the Southern Baptist conservatives are far more gracious than the Independent Baptist conservatives. And I feel compelled to add here, in spite of rumors that are periodically floated around about me, I have no interest in joining the Southern Baptist Convention and no one can provide me with any reason why I should be. I like my independence and I intend to stay that way for the foreseeable future – even among Independent Baptists.
That said, maybe it's time for the administrators of Christian colleges to leave their ivory towers and start meeting with some of the leaders of the Southern Baptist Convention and pastors of their churches. Grill them… they can take it. Pin them down on issues such as inerrancy, the fundamentals of the faith, separation, holiness, etc… You'll be surprised at what you find and you may well find that their young people will make a tremendous addition to your student body.
Or, they can keep considering them the enemy. I'm sure Bill Brown, Jerry Falwell and Danny Lovett will appreciate their blindness as they recruit some great students and give them a good Independent Baptist college education.
So once again, I've shared my thoughts for better or for worse. I've tried to do it with honesty and fairness. If you don't think I've been either, challenge me. If I'm wrong – I'll either correct it, apologize or both. I'd like to be wrong on some of this. I love our Independent Colleges even though some of their administrators don't care for me. That's OK….this about direction, philosophy and building the Kingdom of God. I don't matter and neither does the agenda of people who are more interested in parochialism and turf protection.
Now discuss among yourselves.
More coming.|W|P|114048883025521708|W|P|Challenges and Opportunities for Conservative Christian Colleges – Part 2 --Getting Over the Southern Baptists|W|P|jdpettus@gmail.com patrick mitchell|W|P|once again...RIGHT ON! Peak|W|P|Right again! Thanks, Dan, for your insight. As a graduate of PCC and a staff member at a Southern Baptist Church, I had just about written off any chance of interacting with the Independent movement, and gladly so. Your articles give me hope that the Independents are finally opening their eyes and seeing the bigger world around them. Cindy Swanson|W|P|Thanks for the good words about Cedarville. As the parent of a 2002 graduate, and a hopeful 2006 graduate, I can attest to the merits of the school, and the excellent education my kids have received there. Robert|W|P|Tina, I don't think there's a single Christian college that doesn't recruit. They may use different tactics, but there's a reason a tour group from your daughter's college was out here in Arizona the summer before last--they're actively seeking students.Dan, I know it's not your main point in this series, but you're making an excellent argument against fighting the enemies of the past...not realizing that those enemies no longer exist. After England, Japan is the best friend we have in the world, and it's only been 60 years since the shooting stopped. The SBC is not what it was in the days of Rice, Roloff and Robertson (or Hyles for that matter) and it is both foolish and counterproductive to keep pretending nothing has changed. They haven't gone as far as I'd like in some areas, but there have been huge changes.
Larry|W|P|Some good thoughts, Dan, both in this article and the last one. But there are also what I believe are some misguided thoughts. I won't address the last article. But I will this one, briefly.The SBC is one of the few organizations to have turned back. Ironically, the moderates are the ones who separated. The SBC has, in many circles, reclaimed a reverence for God's word and doctrine.
But, you must admit that the days in which you as a student were warned about the SBC were not the days of today. Your college days were likely not far removed from the Holyfield thesis, that showed SBC schools turning out theological liberals. That is the major reason why people were warned about it. The doctrine had slipped.
In those days, Falwell was not associated with the SBC. He claimed the BBF has his group. Falwell began to take a turn away from solid theological stance on purity. He has turned to a very contemporary ministry that lacks biblical teaching on holiness (I am not focusing on hair on collars, and the like). He has had men like Franklin Graham come and preach for him. These things should be disturbing to even a moderately sensitive believer. He has become a political lightning because of ill-advised and misguided comments. He has brought shame on the name of Christ through some of that.
The events which brought the warning were contemporary to the time of the warning, years ago. Yet you seem treat them as if those events never happened.
With respect to the current condition of the SBC, they have righted the ship in many areas. But they have not repudiated the unbiblical support for ecumenical evangelism. Al Mohler served on the crusade committee for Graham. That is unexcusable. A man of his biblical stature and knowledge, who has written and done so many good things, should have known better.
That is what is troubling. There remains, in much of the leadership, what seems to be a lack of discernment.
So while there is a need for conservative Christian colleges, and while Clearwater, BJU, and a few others fit that bill, we need more discernment.
We should not accept these simplistic arguments that treat today as if it were thirty years ago, or treat thirty years ago as if it were today.
I hope the SBC rights the ship even more, repudiates ecumenical evangelism, and becomes more committed to biblical practice.
Wendy|W|P|Larry said "But they have not repudiated the unbiblical support for ecumenical evangelism. Al Mohler served on the crusade committee for Graham. That is unexcusable."Larry, I have to disagree with you. That's not unexcusable. That's being salt. There is legitimate need to be concerned about the precision with which the gospel is handled at such crusades. The fact that Mohler hung with the SBC indicates that he believes the best course of action is to stay and fight for correct thinking on the issue, not tuck and run when people start going the wrong direction. If Mohler is on the crusade committee, then it's highly likely that we'll see a realignment of the crusades with the true gospel. In particular, we should be seeing more attention paid to the doctrine of those following up with new converts. In fact, I believe we are already seeing correction on this issue and standards being raised on who is allowed to disciple those who profess Christ at crusades.
Dan Burrell|W|P|Dave wrote...Keyes followed Ankerberg by several years. Ankerberg preached in chapel; Keyes spoke in a public assembly on campus (whether you agree with it or not, most of the colleges distinguish the two; one being religious, the other being political). Keyes' wife is from India.>>The first point regarding the timing is my error. I did not follow my own notes on the timing though I don't think it negates my point at all.
The second point is a rationalization. I suppose it would be used also to explain why it was appropriate to have the divorced, Southern Baptist politician, Strom Thurmond (who was later revealed to have had a child with an African-American woman)on the board of the college. (And he wasn't the only Southern Baptist who has graced that board.)
The final point is semantical. She is non-African we can all agree. The initial picture I saw made her look lighter than a typical Indian, but another picture I found reflected her Indian heritage mauch clearer. I'm not going to get into some sort of blood-line argument on this. (I have family who are British-Indian.) The point is, the double-standard regarding the unBiblical and ludicrous dating policy that was racist to the core.
I appreciate the opportunity to correct and clarify, but would point out that the point remains what I intended to make. It's a double-standard and an unnecessary one at that.
I think it was great that they had both John Ankenberg AND Alan Keyes speak to the students. I couldn't care less what racial combination Keyes has in his marriage and there's no indication in Scripture that God cares either. It's just hard to be consistent when the standard or policy is questionable in the first place.
The following excerpt is from a sermon titled "Encourage Your Minister," preached by Charles Spurgeon on Sunday Morning, October 18th, 1863, at Cornwall Road Chapel.
Encourage Your Minister by Charles H. Spurgeon
If you do not encourage your minister, your minister will probably sink down in despair. Remember that the man himself needs encouragement, because he is weak. Who is sufficient for these things?
To serve in any part of the spiritual army is dangerous, but to be a captain is to be doubly exposed. The most of the shots are aimed at the officers. If Satan can find a flaw in our character, then it will be, "Publish it, publish it, publish it!" If he can lead us to keep back a doctrine or go amiss in practice, or wander in experience, he is glad enough. How delighted is the devil to break the vessels of mercy.
Pray for the poor man, whom you expose to perish if you do not preserve him by supplication. If there were a ship at sea stranded and broken on the rocks, and someone volunteered to carry a rope to the sinking crew, you, standing on the shore, could do no more, methinks you could not do less, than cry, "O God! help him to bear the rope to that wrecked ship."
Pray for the minister and encourage him, for there are plenty to discourage him. There are always carping spirits abroad who will remind him of any fault; he will be afflicted by those dastards who will not dare to sign their names to a letter, but send it to him anonymously; and then there is the devil, who, the moment the man has got out of the pulpit, will say, "There is a poor sermon! You will never dare to preach again."
After he has been preaching for weeks there will come a suggestion, "You are not in your proper sphere of labor." There are all sorts of discouragements to be met with. Professing Christians will backslide. Those who do remain will often be inconsistent, and he will be sighing and crying in his closet, while you, perhaps, are thanking God that your souls have been fed under him.
Encourage your minister, I pray you, wherever you attend—encourage him for your own sake. A discouraged minister is a serious burden upon the congregation. When the fountain gets out of order, you cannot expect to find water at any of the taps; and if the minister be not right, it is something like a steam engine in a great manufactory—everybody's loom is idle when the motive-power is out of order.
See that he is resting upon God and receiving his divine power, and you will all know, each Sabbath day, the benefit of it. This is the least thing you can do. There are many other things which may cause you expense, effort, time, but to encourage the minister is so easy, so simple a matter, that I may well press upon you to do it.|W|P|114045498328966191|W|P|Spurgeon on Caring for Pastors|W|P|jdpettus@gmail.com
We have a tendency of calling our Sunday services “Worship Services”. Indeed, it’s the hope of every pastor, minister of music, worship leader or whatever you call those who lead the congregation through a liturgy of whatever sort that people will engage in worship. But is it possible for most of us to simply “throw a switch” somewhere in our hearts and minds and enter “worship mode” simply because our favorite anthem declares the beginning of a service or because it is 10:30 on Sunday morning?
As I have been preparing my own heart for ministry this week-end, I’ve thought of several things I want to make sure set the stage for real worship and indeed, if I am aware of what is doing in and around me – I should be anticipating that worship will begin before I ever walk into the auditorium.
First, am I right with the Father? A few minutes of quiet reflection or reading of scripture followed by some meditation gives the Holy Spirit opportunity to point out the attitudes, actions, words and thoughts which have polluted my heart and character in recent hours. At times, meditation becomes very painful as the stillness that overtakes me gives voice to the convicting presence of Truth and the Holy Spirit. At that point, my only correct choice is to confess and repent.
Next, am I right with the Family? Schedules are tight. People are busy. Sin happens. And over the course of weeks, days or hours, offenses and irritations accumulate and yet, often we are simply too busy or too resistant to deal with them. Yet the Great Commandment – to love the Lord God with all our hearts, souls and mind is followed by a secondary commandment to love our neighbors as ourselves. Ouch. Choosing to release bitterness, determining to embrace forgiveness, committing to offer grace, promising to seek reconciliation are all prerequisites to meaningful worship.
Also, is there an openness in my heart? A determined spirit of submission which invites the Lord to use His Word to purify me. If I’m looking to be “comfortable” in worship, then my priorities are wrong. This isn’t about whether or not I’m comfortable, it’s about the Lordship of Christ in my heart and life.
Finally, am I there as a participant or as the audience? Years ago, I chose not to sit on the platform during our congregational singing. In fact, I only go up the stairs to the platform when it is required for me to offer leadership whether in prayer or in preaching. The rest of the time, I sit in the congregation. I want to be able to participate. I want to sing and pray and raise my hands and bow my head and be reminded of truth in song so that my heart and focus is fixed on the real audience – the Audience of One….Christ. If I’m compelled to say “amen” or to “applaud”, I want it to be my personal expression of worship to Christ – not one who is directing others to follow my example or to serve as an encouragement to others. Sometimes I sing with the congregation with my eyes closed so I won’t be tempted to examine others or worry about flow or fret about something that didn’t occur as planned. So many times, folks enter church as critics or audience members with expectations of entertainment or having their personal needs met.
Worship is an exercise that will redirect our attention, reprioritize our agenda and refocus our hearts – but only if we approach it with a commitment to Biblical responses, thoughtful participation and a prepared heart.
I hope as you worship this week-end with your church family that you’ll be aware that real worship may begin before you think it will if you’ll just prepare your heart in advance.|W|P|114030777161961332|W|P|Worship Begins Before You Think It Does|W|P|jdpettus@gmail.com J. Mark Miller|W|P|Good post, Dan,As I'm sitting here this Sunday AM, preparing myself to step up and lead worship, I look at my RSS reader and see "Worship Begins Before You Think It Does" near the top of the list. I click it and--good stuff.
Thank you for helping me further focus on my Lord this morning. I pray that your own service is glorifing the Lord at this moment.
mb|W|P|Right on! I also, as a worship leader, used this to challenge our people. I used it before the service with some scripture to challenge them. Thanks! Gordon|W|P|If every church member would use these principles, it would sure make a difference in our services.
I live within a two-hour’s drive of Bob Jones University. I think BJU has one of the finest academic programs available among Christian colleges. Yet, if you suggest to most of our students (we have a few graduates attending there, but a disproportionately small number) that they should give BJ a look for college, they snort and roll their eyes. When it comes right down to it, the reason is because of BJ’s reputation of hyper-control over every aspect of the student’s existence. I’m not talking about the whole “pink and blue sidewalk” cliché. Our kids are far more sophisticated than to swallow that stuff. I’m talking about being told what time to turn their lights out, what radio stations they can have programmed in their cars, what time they must get up, rules about turning in your roommate if you find out they listen to Phillips, Craig and Dean or slip out to a Stephen Curtis Chapman concert.
At Hyles-Anderson College, kids can’t play Uno or Rook because someone might walk by and think they are playing strip poker or something. At Texas Baptist College, girls can’t wear pajamas with pants to bed because they are wearing that “which pertaineth to a man”. Other colleges have room inspectors that make Donald Rumsfield look like Jane Fonda.
I’m not against rules. We have them at NCA. I also understand that some rules are necessary for decorum and the civilization of dorm life. I don’t think a school with “no rules” is a good idea at all.
I also understand that for many of these kids, going to some conservative Christian colleges means being demoted to the kind of lifestyle they lived under when they were 10 years old and they just aren’t going to go back to that.
Some will argue and rightfully so, “attendance at a private college is privilege, not a right!” I agree. It is a privilege. It is also a privilege that I want them to experience. This isn’t the 60’s when the Preacher and Paw made the decision about where little Suzie was going to be going to college where she could get her “M.R.S. Degree”. Today’s graduates are sophisticated, engaged and yes, way more independent than they used to be.
Others will say, it’s supposed to be a place to develop discipline. I’ve even used the argument with kids telling them, “Think of it as four years of bootcamp. You salute smartly, obey respectfully and serve your tour of duty. Then when you are discharged, you are equipped and free to work out your own faith.” These smart-allecked kids look right back at me and say, “Or I can go to a good accredited school without so many rules, not compromise my own standards and enjoy my college experience.” Guess which argument wins?
So conservative Christian college attendance continues to drop, many kids end up going to nominally Christian institutions of higher learning and in the end, our best graduates don’t gain the benefit of a sound fundamental Christian education.
And why? Because we have rules against goatees? Because we assume that if a kid goes to the movies, he’s going to go see “American Pie” rather than “End of the Spear”? Because if a Senior holds his girlfriend’s hand in the dating parlor it’s going to lead to all manner of debauchery and immorality. (Factoid: I have known more students to get kicked out of BJU than any other Christian college for immorality and they have some of the strictest dating rules around.) Because we think that somehow requiring guys to wear ties to class or girls to wear nylon stockings beneath their skirts makes for a better learning environment? Do you have any empirical evidence to back that up?
It breaks my heart to see good kids head off to Baylor or (uh, oh – I’m going to get in trouble here…) Wheaton or Samford because they’ve snookered their parents into thinking that these are conservative Christian colleges simply because some of our fundamental schools are hanging on to 40-year old rules that really don’t make any sense.
In the end, most Christian college students would benefit from a structured and discipline environment, but one that has as its goal “transformation” and not “conformity.” Conformity is always dependent upon “control”. Once the control is gone, you’ll find out to what extent they have been “transformed.” But across Christian education, we have become quite content expending our energy on “control” rather than mentoring, training, counseling, growing, developing, leading and interning our students toward greater accountability, personal responsibility and spiritual transformation.
A school without rules is impossible. Standards are necessary. But let’s face it, some of the battles we fight in Christian schools today are unnecessary and not even Biblical. Sure, a case can be made for dismissing the whole “excessive control” issue as a battle against compromise worth fighting, but is it not time for some reasonable discussion of eliminating stumbling stone rules which present an inaccurate image of Christian holiness, institutional excellence and the personal liberty of each believer?
All in all, I’d prefer that my kid put on a pair of shorts and a T-shirt, run down to Pensacola Beach in his car playing Dave Crowder Band, laying on those white sandy beaches for a couple of hours reading Josh Harris’ book on “Not Even a Doubt” than I would have him turning into a rebel without a cause by sneaking under his covers at night with a flashlight to read a book by Chuck Swindoll and fearing that the dorm supervisor would catch him reading the words of a new evangelical and getting kicked out of school -- which was how I spent my four years at a Christian college.
The real challenge for all of us involved in Christian education is to practice and encourage Romans 12:2 thinking -- "Be not conformed to this world, but be ye TRANSFORMED by the renewing of your minds...." Sometimes we are so intent on controlling behavior that we do not inspire tranformation.
I think this is done in several ways...
1. Taking hard lines on positions that would be better left to local church autonomy and personal Christian liberty.
2. Implying or allowing students to infer that spirituality is connected to performance. (ie...you are 'spiritual' if you don't use sound tracks or if you do abstain from caffeine, etc...)
3. Fighting the culture at the expense of teaching discernment. (ie...abolishing shirts of a particular color or banning certain styles of faddish clothing or hair styling, etc...)
4. Suggesting that every questionning of a rule is tantamount to questionning authority. Thinking people ask questions and isn't that what college is all about? So when a student asks why such and such a rule is necessary, don't treat them like a rebel. Give them a sound answer or change the stupid rule.
5. Teaching standards without principles. Some schools have rules against wearing denim, t-shirts, slacks on girls, shorts on boys, etc... I don't have a beef with appearance standards, but teach the principles behind the standards and don't twist scripture to make it support a "standard." General principles on dress that are Biblically supported include the Principles of Identity, Propriety and Modesty. Trying to use some passage in Leviticus to outlaw women wearing slacks is intellectually and theologically dishonest.
6. Enforcing the rules as a dictorator rather than a mentor. Some kids break rules out of ignorance rather than out of rebellion. More kids get turned off by the method of dealing with rules infractions than they do by the rules themselves. Using some Dean of Women with hair on her knuckles to crack down with all the fury a demerit pad can muster on a girl whose skirt is a smidgen too short is far less effective than having a godly women speak personally with violators while lovingly explaining principles of modesty and propriety in a way that explains and reinforces.
7. Assuming and believing the worst about students. Several Christian colleges I could name (and I won't -- at least not yet) are NOTORIOUS for running the dormlife and social life of students with a level of cynical distrust that automatically jumps to the worst possible conclusion when made aware of any rumor or suspicion that an infraction has occurred. Some seem to take pleasure in catching people doing wrong even when they might not have been doing wrong. They use invasions of privacy, a network of "patrols", intimidating interrogations and real and implied threats to coerce confessions and the implication of others. At times it would make Abu Grahib look like it was run by the French and it's just wrong.
8. Offering no strategy for repentance, restoration and reconciliation for those who DO drift into sin. Wherever you find church discipline taught in Scripture, the goal for believers is never punishment, but restoration. Wouldn't that be a novel approach for some of our Christian colleges do adopt?
I've exhausted my time for this particular article, but I do want to include this thought...
I think the way some colleges treat their staff and faculty (as if they were children and ones bent on misbehaving at that) with rule books and inspections is about as demeaning and offensive as one can be. Again, I’m not talking about standards of personal and ethical conduct…I’m talking about dictating matters of personal Christian liberty for the sake of institutional control. But that’s another rant…
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I’m out of time, though not out of thoughts. So feel free to discuss among yourselves. For some of you unacquainted with the world of conservative Christian colleges, you probably think you've entered the "Twilight Zone" with this article, but for the thousands and thousands of students who sleep in the dorms of Christian colleges across the USA, what I describe is being lived out daily. I certainly didn’t exhaust this “challenge” and I may revisit it again eventually. I’ll share additional thoughts in a few days. Fire at will. I love the debate.|W|P|114004453579709859|W|P|Challenges and Opportunities for Conservative Christian Colleges – Part 1 --Transformation verses Conformity Nephos|W|P|Wow! Thank you for having the courage to say what has needed saying for a long time. It sometimes seems our teens are faced with only two extreme options. What we need is BALANCE!
I look forward to the remaining articles.
mb|W|P|For someone who spent all his life in public school including two years at a jr. college, going to a strict conservative college was a big change. I attended two years at Clearwater Christian College. I would consider it as more balanced than Pensacola and BJ. My wife grew up at one and attended the other two. What amazed me are the kids that knew the rules and then showed up to break as many as they could. Some were sent by mommy and daddy to hopefully straighten their kid out to only find them shipped out half way through the first semester. Now I have to admit I got my share of demerits for not cleaning my room sink or not making my bed on a daily basis. I was in culture shock not ever being exposed to this environment. It took me a week to get the courage up to ask someone what "Mixed Bathing" was.I also found four types of students there. The athletes, the spiritual, the pretend spiritual walking across campus with the biggest Bible and the rule breakers.
I will have to say that I took the good from CCC and worked out the other issues. The first being a wife from what some call the "Marriage Supermarket." It was also through my connections and the Lord's working, that led me to your school of Northside Christian Academy. We spent some wonderful years and made lasting memories there!!! My education from CCC was excellent, but I left as a well rounded individual. I also had no idea that my roommate would call me several years later and ask me to help start a church.
I thank God for the impact that Clearwater Christian College and the people involved there had on my life!
patrick mitchell|W|P|WHOOOOOOOO!!! i can't help but respond to this blog...RIGHT ON! i'm glad you said all that and i hope it gets read. i said this (and much more) for 4 years, my mouth got dry, i lost my voice, and nobody got it...so i stopped talking. i'm also glad you could write about this and be able to stop after 7 pages...once i get going i can't stop myself for hours. These colleges are getting even worse since you've been associated with them. The one i attended is going down the tubes FAST! i wasn't able to discern this until i was in too deep to transfer. Thankfully i salvaged some things out of my last 2 years at (you know where) by resolving to chew up the meat and spit out the bones. although, i would never recommend that to anyone because i was starving due to a lack of meat and my teeth are dull from spitting out an excessive amount of bones! No one should have to go through that at a "Christian" college. yes, you always have to spit out some bones, but when you can't get out of your dorm room due to all the bones you've spit out...something is terribly wrong!
one day when i have children i pray that they never have to know that these colleges exist. why expose kids to the lifestyle and teaching of 21st century Pharisees?
And you can't refer to them as "Bible" colleges either! in my experience (i'm sad to say) my last 4 semesters at a so-called "Bible/Christian" college there was maybe 5% Bible and 95% man's opinion! that's not what i paid for!!! (maybe i should ask for a 95% refund?).
of course i only had to pay 5 grand a year to go to my college which is ridiculously cheap...and then all my classmates who were duped into attending the seminary there kept saying, "but it's only $100 per credit hour!"...to which i only had 1 reply = "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!!"
i am so thankful for what God taught me in college. i'm thankful for a few great professors. i'm thankful for the friends i made. i'm thankful that God put me in a great church to work with and learn under a great Pastor. but all in all these colleges are bad places and spiritually Dangerous! i couldn't recommend them to anyone with a clear conscience.
i know you just cracked the tip of the iceberg and i hope you can find the time to write a lot MORE of this. don't wait too long either, keep it fresh in folks' minds. i'm looking forward to it. i don't lose my voice when all i have to say is RIGHT ON!
i'm glad you're writing these articles and i hope the administrative folk at these colleges listen. i hope God prompts them to change. until then they are doing my generation a massive and unforgivable disservice!!!
i better stop now before i really get going. Thanks Pastor B.
Gordon|W|P|This is outstanding. These things needed to be said in the worst way. I only hope that the leadership of some of theses institutions will give and ear to this. Some of these colleges are more interested in conforming their students into their own image than they are in teaching them to love God.
Brother, you are liable to catch some flack for this (I'm sure you're aware of this already). I pray that God will shield you and give you the strength to continue to be a voice in this wilderness of senseless legalism.
Peak|W|P|Thank you so much for such an excellent summary of the way life is for so many Christian college students. As a '95 Bible major grad from PCC, I'm now a children's pastor at a Southern Baptist church that is making the transition to progressive, community-minded ministry. There's no going back for me! J. Mark Miller|W|P|Thanks, Dan, for this posting. I whole-heartedly agree. My own experience in college was somewhat as you described. I love my school, but I can't help but still have a bitter taste in my mouth, and a desire to not interact with it and its associations because of my time there.I had wonderful, spiritual professors, that I made personal connections with; but the system at large left much to be desired.
I was once fined for having a poster hanging up of a "contemporary" Christian music group. Another person on my hall had a poster of Magic Johnson hanging up and nothing was ever said. When the father of one of my hallmates found out (he was a pastor), he went into the admin office and made the point: "You mean to tell me they can hang up a poster of a man who will teach kids about 'safe sex,' but not hang a poster up of a group who will sing about Jesus?"
That pastor became one of my "heroes" in the faith. Oh, well, ramble over.
Well said, Dan.
Frank Sansone|W|P|Dan,I was over here the other day and there were a couple of comments and then it appeared that they disappeared. For some reason, the bottom of your post says "0 Comments" even though when I clicked comments, there were actually 9.
Anyway, I will break your string of "kudos" here to indicate that I have "issues" with this evaluation. I have posted those issues at A Thinking Man's Thoughts in an article entitled Conservative Christian Colleges. I would love for you to consider those issues and comment if you have time.
In Christ,
Pastor Frank Sansone
Dan Burrell|W|P|Hi Frank...thanks for the link and the comments. I hope to be able to make some time perhaps over the week-end to give some follow-up thoughts related to your comments. I don't know what is wrong with the "comment" button on the blog. I've been having trouble with blogspot lately.In the interest of full-disclosure, I would tell you that the "under-the-covers" experience I recounted occurred at Hyles-Anderson. I'll just briefly state that while you might take umbrage with me inclusion of the likes of TBC and HAC with BJU, there are many "connections" between the schools including faculty and student recruiting pools. For example, I am largely using, for the sake of this discussion, colleges that have or do advertise in the Sword of the Lord which is probably the largest Independent Baptist circular of its kind.
I'll write more on this later and I do not mind the critique...it's what makes debate interesting and keeps academics honest.
I'll re-read and consider your comments as I continue this series.
Dan
Frank Sansone|W|P|Dan,Thanks for the clarification about the colleges that are intended to be the focus. It helps me to better consider and evaluate your comments.
While we will probably disagree on this, I would not think that BJU would be included in the main part of the "Sword of the Lord" crowd - as presently constituted. I highly doubt either side would think that they are part of the "same crowd" except in the very broadest sense.
I receive the SOTL and find some value in it, but there is a definite difference between these two crowds. I understand that in the early days of Shelton Smith's tenure, BJU tried to reach out to SOTL again and advertised again for awhile (after many years of not advertising), but that relationship was again severed a few years ago. Dr. Smith himself has commented that he views some things differently than the founder of SOTL and his immediate predecessor as well. The paper has continued to reflect that adjustment. (E.g. While I am not a big CH fan, I have a booklet in which he discusses "Unnecessary Divisions among Fundamentalism" and includes the translation issue as one of those "Unnecessary Divisions" - a statement that few in the SOTL crowd would make or agree with today.)
Thanks again for your interraction. I look forward to reading the rest of your articles on this topic. I hope I did not come across as unneccessarily harsh in either my comment here or my blog, I surely did not intend to, and if I did, please accept my apology.
In Christ,
Pastor Frank Sansone
Terry Lange|W|P|I agree with what you said. Some schools can place too much emphasis on the rules and forgot what ministry and education is all about.I am thankful to be a 1992 graduate of Trinity Baptist College in Jacksonville, FL. Trinity is not a perfect school, but I found it to be balanced and practical (http://www.tbc.edu)
Dan Burrell|W|P|The following is my reply to the specific issues raised by Pastor Frank Sansone in his website.---------
Frank, I have given some comments to your critique and will post them here. Thank you for giving me this opportunity.
Dan
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Frank wrote… One of the examples of what I am disappointed with is his inclusion of Bob Jones University in the discussion with Texas Baptist College and Hyles-Anderson College. To anyone who has spent much time around the schools (and I assume that Dr. Burrell has done so) would readily recognize that we are talking apples and oranges. Neither side of this equation would want to be associated with the other. If the discussion is going to focus on schools like Texas Baptist College, then by all means, have that discussion, but don't paint with such a broad brush that you are including BJU in that discussion. If the discussion is going to focus on schools like Bob Jones University, then by all means, have that discussion, but include the related schools (such as the AACCS schools like Northland Baptist Bible College, Maranatha Baptist Bible College, etc.) and don't throw HAC and TBC into the mix and make your discussion so broad that it becomes meaningless.
Dan replies… I’ve actually spent time at a lot of Christian schools and have friends and acquaintance and no small number of “non-fans” at some of the examples that I cited. However, I stand by my use of a broad inclusion in this series for several reasons.
First, BJU is the oldest and most pre-eminent of the conservative Christian and Independent Baptist colleges I cited and most all of those which I didn’t cite. Texas Baptist is run by a total Hyles sychophant (Bob Gray) and Hyles-Anderson proudly cited its BJU “heritage” while I was there in the late 70’s and early 80’s and I assume they haven’t changed the names of the dorms named for various Jones’ and Ma’ Sunday, etc… Wendell Evans, the long-time president of HAC is a very proud of BJU and in years past, there were multiple BJU grads on faculty and staff. Quite a few kids transferred back and forth between the two institutions and I know of several HAC board members who sent their children to BJU.
I do plan on expanding the net and include other AACCS and non-AACCS schools in future articles where appropriate, but one must absolutely include the red-headed step-children of BJU who were impacted directly and indirectly by HAC. At this point, I would also just mention that many in the Ind. Baptist world consider the AACCS to be a quasi “Bob Jones Association of Christian Colleges” much as the AACS (American Association of Christian Schools) has become labeled. But the world of Independent Baptist and Conservative Christian colleges is deeply entertwined (some might say "inbred") and that is a very easy case to make.
Frank Says… By lumping this (sic) significantly different schools together, he actually makes the discussion hard to critique because when refutation of a particular illustration is made, Dr. Durrell (sic) can claim, "Well, I wasn't speaking of that institution when I made that comment."
Dan Replies… That’s a supposition without any basis in fact. I have not dodged any refutation of my theses using that line. I’m not going to claim exact applications in every situation and will offer broad generalizations based on experience and personal observations, but will use specific examples only as anecdotal support.
Frank Says… For example, he makes the comment:
... turning into a rebel without a cause by sneaking under his covers at night with a flashlight to read a book by Chuck Swindoll and fearing that the dorm supervisor would catch him reading the words of a new evangelical and getting kicked out of school -- which was how I spent my four years at a Christian college.
Now, I don't know enough about Texas Baptist College to know if that is an accurate description of their policy or not, but I do know that "reading the words of a new evangelical" would not be a reason to fear at BJU (or Northland or Maranatha, etc.). In fact, I found much usefulness out of reading "Hand Me Another Brick" by Charles Swindoll while at school.
Dan Replies…Actually one of the books I feared getting caught reading was indeed a “Swindoll” book as well as some libertarian novels by Ayn Rand. Interestingly, I was also given those books by a “free-thinking” professor who is now a senior administrator at a major Christian college. However, in spite of the occasional gracious and independent professor, we both know that there was a general policy against reading what they described as “neo-“ or “new” evangelicals. (Factoid: while I was at HAC, you could be expelled for reading Peter Ruckman – a BJ grad and KJVO advocate whose views are embraced today by HAC.)
Dan comments... For the sake of brevity, I won’t re-publish all of the comments after Frank’s challenges as they are available on his website which can be found HERE.
Frank wrote… My biggest issue with Dr. Burrell's article, however, stems from the following:
1. His comments reveal a fundamental misunderstanding of the goals of these schools.
Dan Replies…no, I don’t think so. It’s not that I don’t “understand” their goals. I disagree with how they want to reach those goals. The emphasis was, and continues to be, on control. There is an unhealthy emphasis on the role they assume they have in setting a standard (which, I believe, most rightly belongs to the church). There is inadequate emphasis on explaining the position and allowing debate to occur about their positions. Debate doesn’t necessarily mean that you’ll end up disagreeing with their position – it might just lead to understanding the position well enough to adopt it yourself. The refusal to allow, in a university/college setting, the level of intellectual and academic give and take which would permit questioning, explanations, debates (without the stigma of being a trouble maker) could actually cause some to embrace the good parts of their “goals”.
2. His comments reveal a fundamental misunderstanding of the institutional nature of some of the rules.
Dan replies… Hardly. I fully understand the “institutional” nature of rules. My own day school has plenty of “institutional” rules. However, we are talking about a college/university here. Beyond the rules is the bigger problem of how the rules are monitored and enforced. I have scores of “horror stories” I could cite (and many of them are as fresh as my posting of the article) which describe a “discipline system” that assumes the worst, belittles students, uses fear/intimidation/manipulation to keep control and which is used to support silly policies that really are questionable. I used a bit of hyperbole in my example of “going to the beach” – but I will tell you that the method of rule enforcement in more than one school has turned good kids into rebels and that was my point.
Of course, colleges need quiet hours in dorms and dress codes for classes. But unlike Scripture, societal norms do change and a periodic re-examination of the rationale for some rules and how they are enforced might change the atmosphere and reputation of some Christian colleges/universities for the better.
3. His comments support false assumptions.
[Dr. Burrell’s] statement makes the false assumption that being in the disciplined environment of a place like BJU automatically equals not "enjoying" your college experience.
Dan replies… I made no such co-relation other than to relate what IS a common part of the thought process of students and reflects the sense of many alumni of BJU and elsewhere. I have received scores of emails, calls and comments “amening” my point. But they are just the experiences of individuals. You are obviously a very positive and loyal alumnus of BJU. I’ve known many of you – indeed many of my friends would be firmly in your camp. But this is not about BJU alone. I cited multiple schools. I had a miserable experience at HAC, but I would also say that at the time, I didn’t know I was receiving a second-rate education (and that’s generous) at a place that was in many senses of the word, a cult. I was fresh off the farm and didn’t know that college life was supposed to be any different. It WAS like a bootcamp. At least at West Point, I would have received a decent education. For a kid who has grown up in a world other than the conservative world of fundamentalism (and I would include BJU in this clearly), it is shocking and seems absurd to be told how to dress constantly, when to get up, who to read/not read (and yes, it does and still occurs), etc… Today’s students are far more sophisticated than they were in my college days and they simply often will not tolerate being treated like army recruits or children. Does the college have a right to treat their students they way they see fit? Of course. Is it always wise and never to be questioned? I think not.
4. His comments encourage a false dichotomy.
This statement is simply wrong on sooo many levels.
* It assumes that the person/persons in question is going to do what they want anyway and that therefore we should not put something in their way that makes their doing what they want a matter of disobedience or rebellion. Using this logic, we should not have any rules or laws since having those rules and laws merely encourages rebellion since people will break them anyway.
Dan replies… there was no assumption made – it was an example and a hyperbolic one at that. I do believe that unnecessary rules indeed give good kids with good hearts and good values cause to behave rebelliously and it seems unnecessary to me.
* It is simply obnoxious to assume that the opposite of permissiveness is rebellion. The reality is that rebellion is much more commonly the result of inconsistency than discipline.
Dan replies… I take some umbrage with your characterization that I was being “obnoxious” – indeed, I tried very hard NOT to be obnoxious. The opposite of permissiveness is not necessarily rebellion and I did not insinuate that. I would concur that rebellion is often caused by inconsistency. It is also caused by harshness, unreasonableness, unkindness and many other factors. None of us have the right to be rebellious against authority. At the same time, authority should wield it’s power wisely taking care to not incite rebellion in its charges. Isn’t this what Paul was referencing when he warned fathers to avoid “inciting” their children “to wrath”?
* It is obnoxious (at least in the context of the mainstream fundamental schools) to suggest that someone would be kicked out for reading Chuck Swindoll and that they would have to do it "under his covers."
Dan replies… Again that word “obnoxious”. No Frank, it is realistic and I could prove it. Not simply at HAC or Texas Baptist, but at BJU, PCC and other places where I have the testimonies of students who were warned and/or reprimanded for reading “non-approved” books written by people that didn’t fit their mold. In many cases, there is a clear double standard and I will actually cite some examples of that double standard when it comes to Southern Baptists in my next article.
All in all, Frank… I appreciate your comments and I hope I have been kind in my rebuttals. I have been stunned at the number of communications I’ve received this week on this first article and it will probably not surprise you that yours was the strongest negative I have received – which doesn’t mean that there aren’t many out there. But I do believe I have hit on a nerve and my efforts – however ineloquent or insufficient they may be, is to provoke thinking and stir conversation which I believe has occurred.
Thanks again for your comments and I pray that the Lord will bless your church and family.
Dan Burrell|W|P|There are many good fundamental and conservative Christian colleges available. I will eventually be offering my own, subjective, analysis of quite a few of them in a future blog post. If you are looking for a Bible College (not a liberal arts college), I'd recommend Baptist Bible College - Clark Summit, PA; Appalachian Bible College in WV; Boston Baptist College; Piedmont Baptist College; The Master's College in CA; Northland Baptist College; Trinity Baptist in Jax, FL and several others. For a good liberal arts college make sure and investigate their accreditation and ability to transfer credits or issue recognized degrees. I have different personal criteria for Liberal Arts Colleges and would recommend Cedarville and Liberty in that order. I'd probably include Clearwater Christian in that mix. I do not recommend any one college for everyone. I think a lot of it depends on the student and their attitude/background, etc... Some kids flourish at a super conservative college while others suffocate. You have to know the kid AND the college to find a good fit. Bob M|W|P|Dan,Thank you for the insightful comments on conservative colleges. I agree totally with your assessment of control and not transformation as the focus of energy in these schools. I have been in several churches where the pastor was a graduate of one of those schools and in each case, they tried to establish their homes and Christian schools in the same way. The teachers were intimidated and the children in the home rebelled and mostly eventually left Christianity totally. It is a shame, and I am afraid that I learned many bad habits from them. I am learning.
I want to thank you for your willingness to risk the wrath of those "in power." You are a genuine servant of God and truth.
Bob Meredith
Dave|W|P|I really appreciate your candor on this issue, I absolutely agree that many times, conservative christian colleges in efforts to combat real issues in our culture, overstep their boundaries into the role of the Local Church. The issue of methodology is absolutely central, as I have no problem with schools having standards of conduct, but you also need to prepare students for life, when they will be responsible to develop and uphold their own standards and convictions. Especially young adult college students are much better served by discipleship than discipline. Looking forward to more articles on this topic. NEB|W|P|I'll join the line of congratulators on this piece. As a graduate of BJU, I'm proud of the fine education I received. I'm also disappointed that in four years of college, I was treated like a preschool brat who needs a close eye and a firm hand.In my opinion, treating your students with suspicion and fostering an aura of paranoia is not conducive to developing thinking Christians. And I'll go further and say a Christian who doesn't think is a Christian who doesn't grow.
But that's just me.
Dan Burrell|W|P|Becky....thanks for your post. I will admit that I've never been on the campus of NBBC (any time I go north of Chicago, I get nose bleeds. ;-0) My reason for not including BJU and NBBC in the same "category" (and again -- these are only my opinions) is because of the attitude of the administration and students/alumni.I do not know the "new" management of Northland, but the former administration -- from Les Olilla on down the food chain -- were known for their graciousness, ability to converse politely in the midst of disagreements and a general gentility that many of us have never experienced from the likes of BJU and PCC. Things may have changed with the new leadership -- not a lot of interaction takes place between folks from the snowy north and Charlotte and my path hasn't crossed with many of them.
I have NO problem with conservative standards, policies, etc... It is the SPIRIT with which they are taught, enforced, elevated and otherwise disseminated by official and alumni alike that is the rub. Hey...these are private schools...they can require what they want. I may think it is extra-biblical, archaic, whatever...but if that's their policy, fine. But there has grown (out of the secondary separation position) a hostility, arrogance and harshness that I find patently unBiblical.
A couple of quick other notes and I'm out of time....
Trinity Baptist College is not KJVO. It is KJV preferred.
BBC/Clark Summit and TBC have many similarities in their spirit and among their alumni. They approach academics and other issues differently and one is obviously a "church" college which creates significant differences. But they are on the same page in a lot of areas.
I'm fully aware that some break rules out of ignorance and others from rebellion. The problem is that many in administration of some Christian colleges treat the offense without regard for the motivation and harshness and inflexibility (because of the need for conformity) seems to be the higher rule.
I'm glad you enjoyed BJU. I know many who have. That doesn't mean they don't have work to do. Or they can stay the course and watch their enrollment continue to shrink. THAT would be a shame. They have too many good things to offer. Sadly, most kids won't even given them a first look.
It's very interesting to me that almost all the people who took umbrage with my posts have been BJU grads. But that's consistent with what I've seen for years -- an unflinching -- at times, blind -- loyalty to the ol' alma mater.
Thanks again for posting.